Author Topic: Tone Board assistance  (Read 405 times)

Offline MUTT

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Tone Board assistance
« on: March 11, 2010, 05:21:33 AM »
I didn't want to  :hijack: JCZ's topic but this is similar in nature.  I received my PSI collet set and turned three duck inserts with it yesterday.  I cut them out on a home made jig.  The sound is pretty darn good.  I noticed on all three inserts, the tone channel is off center a little. I'd like to dial that in a little but not really sure where to start?  I used the tutorial posted by BigB using the collet and ¼" blind mandrel.

On a separate note..... why have I been without a collet chuck for so long. This thing is great!

Thanks for any help.

Mutt
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Offline BigB

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Re: Tone Board assistance
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2010, 07:26:29 AM »


Mutt,

Put them back on the blind mandrel before you cut the toneboard.  Don't use a head stock as a support.  Turn the lathe on, and bring a pencil up to the insert about where your tone channel ends.  The pencil will mark where the high spot is on your inserts.  Then load the insert into your jig, with the pencil mark to the top.  When you cut the insert, the tone channel will now be centered.

The pencil mark is essentially marking the runout of the insert.  Don't mark all the way around the insert.  Just mark the high spots.

Brian
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Offline ben

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Re: Tone Board assistance
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2010, 07:27:50 AM »
Mutt''

I am reading that you turned the insert using a 1/4 rod in your collet chuck. Even doing that the hole in the insert can be off a little due to drill bit wandering off or if the tail stock center lines up on the hard grain and when you tighten it down it slides off the hard grain and causes it to be off center.

All you have to do is when you finish turning just move the tail stock back and turn the lathe by hand and if it wobbles then find the high point of the wobble, mark it and when you put it in your jig to cut turn the mark to the top in the jig and it will center the hole in the insert. If you happen to have a dial indicator use it and it will be near perfect.

ben

Offline ben

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Re: Tone Board assistance
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2010, 07:29:02 AM »
Brian and I hit at the same time , so twice is better.

ben

Offline TheJester357

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Re: Tone Board assistance
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2010, 10:58:56 AM »
A trick I picked up From Wade C. a while back to help with drilling your holes closer to center:

 Turn your insert down between centers without drilling your holes (I turn 2 at a time alot).

 Install the insert blank into the 5/8" collet chuck and face the end off flat.

 Using a good sized center drill, lock down your tailstock as firmly as possible and center drill the end. Speed should be about 500 RPM

 Install your drill bit all the way to the base of the flutes in your drill chuck, and very slowl drill to the depth of the bit. It's very important that your bit is correctly sharpened and even or it will tend to run off center! Rechuck the bit and drill to depth ( I usually unlock my tailstock and push it in by hand here.

 It doesn't always work (some woods have grain that just skws the hol no matter what you do) but I have noticed a huge difference in the number of straight holes since I started doing this.

 Good luck!

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Offline Wade C

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Re: Tone Board assistance
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2010, 11:35:33 AM »
One of the advantages to drilling ona lathe as compared to the drill press, is that the natural tendency of the bit is to pull towards the center of the work piece (path of least resistance) - of course, all sorts of outside factors come into play, but with some effort - its easier to get a centered hole on a lathe than it is a drill press.

Like Jester said, Start you hole - with a very short bit so it doesnt wobble.  Like a center drill or spot drill.
For the most centered hole, your tailstock needs to be centered too - but I have found on wood lathes....  yeah good luck with that.  So, the goal is to be as centered as you can.   With that short bit (center drill or spot drill) and the part in the collet - face off for a nice flat surface.  Then move the bit up to the face, and SLOWLY just barely touch the face... if its centered, youll see it, if its not, youll see the tip cut a faint circle.  Back off, loosen the tail stock, re adjust it, and try again, get it as close to center as you can.

Once its as close as you can get it.  Move the bit in very slowly.  What you are doing is starting the hole, and it wont be very deep.  Personally Id suggest a spot drill the same size as your regular drill so you are creating a "guide" for the longer bit.  But a center drill will give you an angled start which is very workable.
Once youve gone in with the spot drill to at least 3/8" you can back out and change bits.  If you use a center drill, only go in far enough to get the taper of the drill part way in.  You dont want the taper left to be larger than the drill youll be switching to.  Also, go slow!  You want that drill to actually act a little like a lathe tool...  youre really drilling, but if the bit is off center, it will cut on the side a little.  You want it to do that, its creating a centered location.

Now when youve switched to the longer bit - if you used a same size spot drill, just line up and start drilling.  Too slow a feed and you will get chatter, to fast and you risk the bit being pulled or pushed off center, either by drill flex or grain soft spots - its a "Feel" thing - it will take a little practice.  If you used the center drill, start the drill VERY slowly....  you want those leading flutes to cut a little more like a lathe tool than a drill.  This is where the physics come in, if you go slow enough, and the bit is off center at all, it will cut the hole just a touch bigger than normal.  But as you feed, the edges on the side of the drill arent shapped for cutting, so they wont cut so much, and they will push the drill to the center.  Once you have that going for a little ways, you can speed up your feed, just not too fast.  You want to keep the drill in motion.  Stopping the drills movement will cause issues.  If youre not feeding in, you want to be feeding out - not standing still.  I will usually start with the tail stock clamped and feed from the hand wheel.  Once Ive gone in as far as I can, back the drill out, then Ill unclamp the tail stock, and just use the "Arm Strong" power feed method :D  but be careful to not feed the drill to fast, and clean the flutes regularly.

Hope that makes sense... :D
Wade

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Offline Robert A.

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Re: Tone Board assistance
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2010, 12:14:37 PM »
Just make sure your drill bit, chuck or MT are secured in the tailstock when you pull back. If they come out of the tailstock it could result in a bad injury!! Just my 2 cents.
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Offline stumpjumper

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Re: Tone Board assistance
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2010, 03:44:36 PM »
A trick I picked up From Wade C. a while back to help with drilling your holes closer to center:

 Turn your insert down between centers without drilling your holes (I turn 2 at a time alot).

 Install the insert blank into the 5/8" collet chuck and face the end off flat.

 Using a good sized center drill, lock down your tailstock as firmly as possible and center drill the end. Speed should be about 500 RPM

 Install your drill bit all the way to the base of the flutes in your drill chuck, and very slowl drill to the depth of the bit. It's very important that your bit is correctly sharpened and even or it will tend to run off center! Rechuck the bit and drill to depth ( I usually unlock my tailstock and push it in by hand here.

 It doesn't always work (some woods have grain that just skws the hol no matter what you do) but I have noticed a huge difference in the number of straight holes since I started doing this.

 Good luck!

 Bob

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Offline MUTT

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Re: Tone Board assistance
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2010, 05:34:52 AM »
Thanks fella's.  I turned several more yesterday but have not cut them out yet.  I paid closer attention to these when I drilled them.  I did notice some of the things mentioned here.  I am setting my ¼" drill bit to 3½" in my chuck and drilling from there.  I do notice the wobble in the bit.  I think I understand how to find the high spot? That's what I will be doing today.... HopefullyI can get a few pic's together.

Thanks again THO BRO's!

Mutt
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Offline pete woolley

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Re: Tone Board assistance
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2010, 07:54:12 AM »
This is a great thread.  I've been doing them like this for some time now, and been successful finding the high spot and getting a variety of characteristics from the same toneboard curve due to the varying channel depth. 

What I haven't been doing was starting the drill bit into a flattened surface.  I had been creating a depression in the face of the insert which I now understand could be part of the "wandering" problem.

You really can see what is going to happen when the bit just barely touches the wood.  I'll be trying a flattened insert end this next week at the farm. 

Someone wisely mentioned holding onto the drill chuck if you are pushing the tailstock in and pulling it back out so it doesn't come out of the tailstock while the motor is turning.  I've had that happen and fortunately it didn't totally come unbuttoned, but I see how it could get ugly real fast.

Learn every day.  Thanks.


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Offline MUTT

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Re: Tone Board assistance
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2010, 06:11:44 PM »
Got the problem fixed.  I cut out the inserts this morning and had great success.  I've slowed things down and paid closer attention to the "small details" and it seems to be working.  This home made jig I made is working but it takes patience as well.  These inserts really sound good and I'm pleased with what I got going on right now.  Thanks for all the advice and help... it went a long way to helping me.

Mutt
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